Lived Experience Forum

[tyme]

My dear @P12 ,

Thank you for giving us a bit of an update about where things are at. I'm sorry they still feel so difficult.

Loneliness is so hard. It means you are stuck in your own mind day after day, night after night.

Do you think utilising these forums more often is a good way to keep connected with society?

At the same time, it's totally okay to be in touch with nature.

After reading your above posts, I have to say I have little to no empathy. At first, I found this terribly distressing to realise, but I really don't know how to 'learn' empathy. Yes, I generally sympathise and over-sympathise, but I really struggle to find a place for empathy.

I'm not 100% pleased about it, but then again, I function so well in society that maybe it's okay??? I don't know.

I don't have any close friends, but I don't want any either. I'm quite happy the way things are. Yet I hear this is a struggle for you and I hear you have been trying for a long time. I sure hope things get better.

[P12]

Thanks @deshift and @tyme . I appreciate your thoughtful replies.

I think I have used this forum less frequently recently because I found that some of my recent posts apparently did not create much interest. I have been using a different forum with some reward.

I believe everyone including me and you has empathy, though some people are more gifted than others. Books like "Nonviolent Communication" and "A Fearless Heart" have helped me understand what empathy is. Empathy, compassion, and kindness are all subtley different. I think I value knowledge and theory, so understanding a concept brings me some satisfaction even though I'm not sure I am able to apply it in practice with other people.

Don't give up on your goals. I have faith that eventually people will receive fulfillment

[tyme]

Great to hear from you @P12 

It's reassuring to know that people have empathy... 

I wonder if it's also about how we define empathy?

I used to always get mixed up with sympathy. 

How do you define the two (empathy, sympathy)?

[P12]

Hi @tyme.

Basically I explain the concepts as follows. I would like to respond more fully when I have more time.

Sympathy occurs when one person identifies the emotions being displayed by another person.

Empathy occurs when the person relates the emotions being displayed by the other person to their own feelings.

Compassion occurs when the person expresses emotions towards the other person in response to empathy (and the other person responds again).

[P12]

Here is my further explanation of empathy.

I believe that every human's highest aim is independence. Everyone desires to live completely independently of other people. A perfect person does not need to interact with other people because they are fully competent and expert in all aspects of life and therefore are only disadvantaged by interacting with others. It is as though they are able to walk around the world in a bubble isolated from everyone else.

However, in reality, humans are imperfect and therefore they are only able to be independent, fully competent, and expert in a subset of life. Life's subset can be imagined as branched or tiered. For most people the subset is only a tiny element of life, but yet it is something that they are more competent in than the vast majority of other people. A small number of people are experts in larger subjects, and these people are usually well known and popular at least to a some people. In reality the bubble of isolation covers only one part of the person.

The human mind is incredibly analytical. It is constantly receiving information about its surroundings and trying to rationalise it, using inductive or deductive reasoning (depending on your perspective), so that it can achieve its goal of independence.

Empathy occurs when a person's analytical powers are directed (consciously of subconsciously) to another person. The analytical reasoning will find ways to relate that person's behaviour to the first person, on a higher branch or tier. And by doing so the first person will be better able to achieve their goal of independence.

[P12]

I would like to give an update on my experiences for anyone interested.

I experienced a mental health breakdown at the end of March. I received two pieces of difficult news in short succession. I felt as though my heart broke. I was curled up on my bed unable to sleep because I was crying. I have mostly recovered now, though I have lingering effects, which I think will remain for my life.

My body and mind's reaction was to do as much as I could to the fullest extent to achieve my goals. I did as many thoughtful actions as I could. I now feel tired and fatigued. One action was to try to obtain greater support. I now have three psychologists and I additionally visited a short term counsellor during my breakdown.

I had a confusing meeting with my Clinical Psychologist two and a half weeks ago. I am having difficulty trusting the premise of their method. I am having trouble understanding how to create meaning in life while using acceptance and commitment theory. . They seemed to suggest we aren't well suited and therefore I might like to stop visiting her. They also seemed to suggest it isn't suitable to meet several practitioners at once. However, my understanding of humanity is that contentment goes beyond one method and one practitioner. I am going to try to develop greater compassion during our meetings.

Earlier this week a second psychologist did not attend a meeting we had scheduled. This made me disillusioned. I was hoping to speak about how I could develop practical skills to achieve my goals. I appear to be over-skilled in cognition. I spoke with two short phone counsellors instead. They asked me what small steps I could take to achieve my goals and what trauma I felt from other people. I said I would like to understand why my psychologist didn't attend and I would like to continue pointing out deficiencies in the world which if removed would make me happier. Apparently there is a belief that I am responsible for actions to make me feel empowered, and that only I can make progress. However, I am having trouble understanding why then I experience trauma as a result of other people's actions towards me.

Largely I am still trying to achieve my goals for the past several years. They are:
- Independence.
- Confidence and self-esteem. Especially when damaged by criticism and exclusion.
- Reducing psychological distress.
- Studying nature and sharing my insights with others.
- Making a friend.

I have noticed that achieving most of my goals seems to involve overcoming obstacles imposed by other people. I haven't worked out how to do this because my understanding of society is relatively poor. I believe my brain thinks more abstractly and more slowly than almost every person I have met.

[tyme]

Hi there @P12 ,

Sounds like a rough road you’re travelling on for the moment. I’m sorry to hear the two life altering events occurred within close succession. I acknowledge how hard this is for anyone, let alone someone who is already more vulnerable.

Im glad to see you have thought about your goals in life. That’s certainly a start. I’m sorry to her you feel that achieving these goals is often hindered by others. I’m curious to hear more about this to see if there are creative ways the community can brainstorm together to find ways around the barriers you are experiencing.

Im certain you are not alone in how you are feeling.

[P12]

Good morning @tyme .

One of my goals that appears to involve obstacles imposed other people is making a friend.

My limited understanding of the topic suggests that all humans move through life in their own apparent delusional state. Making a friend is apparently about finding someone who truly values your beliefs, thoughts, feelings, and actions.

I have met thousands of people but feel that I am still trying to make a friend. Most people don't interact with me. Some interact briefly then apparently lose interest. A small number interact for longer but ultimately seem to conclude that they can't determine what value I can give them so move away from me.

I think my brain functions differently to most people I meet. Therefore I am simply unlikely to make a friend.

How do I convince someone to be my friend?

I gave further explanation of my efforts in the following posts.

The final post of Page 3 of this thread.

https://saneforums.org/t5/Something-s-not-right/Looking-for-advice/td-p/703991/page/3

This thread.

https://saneforums.org/t5/Something-s-not-right/Independence-and-Friendship/m-p/992778/highlight/tru...

[tyme]

You have some very interesting interests! How awesome @P12 !

I'm a bit "outta-the-box" too and you know what? I actually like it. I came to the point where I didn't care about having to change to please others. Instead, I learnt to love being me.

In terms of friendships, I can say I have a lot of acquaintances, but I can't really call them 'my friends'. But I don't think I want friends because they will hold me back from what I'm doing. People may call me their friend, but this is not reciprocated. I have to say I'm guilty of not continuing conversations with people, or not answering people.

What would you like to get out of a friendship? You seem like a very interesting person to talk to.

Please continue to be you!

[P12]

Hi @tyme 

With a friend I would have compassion. I believe this is possible with supernatural or imaginary friends but not the same as with an actual human friend, and It is distorted with humans who aren't friends.