Riding a wave

[Faith-and-Hope]

I am out at the moment @Phoenix_Rising ... I just wanted you to know I hear you ....

💕🐢

[Zoe7]

"Sneaking into the underwater cave to leave little turtle a message!"

I did get your message @Phoenix_Rising - and completely got what you were saying  I not only got what you were saying but agreed with you 

I think sometimes when 'we' (the collective we) are attempting to show someone that we care we often forget that our views may not necessarily be shared by everyone. I prefer to use terms such as 'just about everyone' or 'most people' etc. as I am very aware that everyone is an individual and not everyone has the same views/thoughts/feelings as each other. 

In regards to the muddle you found yourself in today little turtle - I can see how inadequate the responses to your questions would have been. What I saw in your post was straightforward honesty from a heartfelt place of actually caring and an acknowledgement of each individual being allowed to exercise 'free choice' in the decisions they make for themselves.

I personally do not think it is that hard to 'speak turtle" - it is simply acknowledging that you (or anyone else) is an individual, recognising what works (or does not work) for you, and being mindful of both how you 'see the world' from your perspective and what makes you feel 'uncomfortable'. 

There are alot of words, phrases, terms used here that I personally find uncomfortable, intrusive or frustrating - some I am sure you do too! But I also know that they come from a 'good place' and can overlook my personl feelings to 'see' the intended message. I can only imagine how difficult such posts are for you - seeing the very literal meaning of what people write! Sometimes I do think that if more people were as literal, as straightforward and as honest as our little Aspie turtle - then there would not be any confusion as to the intended meaning of posts. You are one in a million (or trillion lol) little turtle - and I SUPER like who you are - don't ever change!

[Phoenix_Rising]

@Zoe7  you have no idea how much this means to me. The fact that I am awake right now and here tells you how crushing this was. I woke up a little while ago and the tears and waves started straight away. I came here to talk it out and ride the wave. I found the message you left in the cave and it settled my giant feelings such a lot. Super super super big thank you for sneaking in here and leaving it. It sounds like the message you heard from me was precisely the message I sought to convey.

You very specifically said that you didn't want people to worry about you, and then you seemed to get all these responses from people telling you they couldn't help worrying about you. I completely respect their position, but it isn't my position. I wanted to let you know that I could do what you were asking people to do - I could not worry about you. And they all seemed to be saying that the reason they couldn't stop worrying about you is because they love you. I superly duperly like you...but that isn't love. To me, I was trying to respect your request...and somehow in the process got accused of being disrespectful. I find that utterly bewildering. 

Anyway, super gigantic thank you for sneaking in here. As I said in my removed post, you are always welcome in the underwater cave. You won't get "I love you's" here or hugs or terms of endearment or familial terms like "sister." But you will get me. You will get someone who superly duperly likes you. Someone who respects your right to do whatever you choose with your own life. Someone who super enjoys both laughing over silly things with you, and sitting with you in the depths of the darkness. Someone who super cares about you without feeling the need to express that care in gushing terms.

I super hope you can find your way back to feeling safe in Forum Land, but I will understand if you can't. I know I will be able to move through my muddle once I talk it over with @NikNik or someone. However, I have well and truly learnt my lesson - I won't be back here over the weekends. It sounds a bit like what I'm feeling regarding the weekends is how you are feeling overall and that super super super sucks.

For what it is worth (which is probably zero!), I haven't got the remotest sense that you or the other person hurt in last week's muddle did anything at all wrong. I honestly don't have the slightest idea what is going on there. I can totally understand your bewilderment over that one!

Super big thank you again for checking in. It is a bazillion percent fine for you to not respond (or even read) this post. My heart feels lighter for knowing that you heard my post exactly as it was intended. I superly duperly hope to see you here again in the underwater cave sometime...but I also respect your choice to stay away. I superly duperly like you @Zoe7.

[Zoe7]

It actually means a huge amount that you are bewildered by my bewilderment also @Phoenix_Rising. I know you 'see' most of what is going on here on the forum and are very discerning - so the fact that you are bewildered also really does mean a huge amount to me 

You are totally correct in suspecting my feelings are similar to how you are feeling about the weekends little turtle. I also understand how deflating it is when you ask for help/clarification and feel so totally let down by the response (or lack of...) Alot of my muddle could have been avoided if my request for help had been answered - and Yes, I felt very let down. This is also part of the reason I don't feel like being here now. irl I often feel 'forgotten', ignored or 'pushed aside' - some of my own making as I will always 'let others go first' or 'postpone' something if others are 'busy' - but what this does is allow those people to think that it is ok the next time to presume I will be ok with doing the same - that then leads to me eventually not even bothering to speak up or ask for anything - I don't feel I matter enough anyway. Sorry! gone off on a tangent there 

I super like you too little turtle and I super like just YOU. You don't need to 'try' to be anything different from what you are - YOU are YOU and trying to change anything about you would only project a false you that you could not sustain anyway. It is not about being someone that 'fits' with the conventional 'normality' society seems to embrace - it should be about 'society' recognising and accepting all differences and not only embracing but celebrating that everyone IS different and is valued because of it, not despite it. Instead of trying to 'change' people and make them 'fit' into a box - how about we 'change' the box - the ability for people to gain a much better understanding of people such as yourself (an Aspie Sea Turtle lol) would then be so much easier and bring about so much more postive conversations and actions - a reality that I would love to see. 

[Phoenix_Rising]

I can totally relate to your feelings of being let down when you ask for help and help isn't forthcoming @Zoe7. Indeed, this idea relates to what I just posted in the DBT thread about how damaging invalidation can be.

I super hope that maybe you might be able to find the courage at some point to reach out to the moderators again. I think perhaps they are a little overwhelmed at the moment with being a bit short staffed and also helping all the new baby moderators who still have their L-plates on, find their way around Forum Land. I have no idea why people tell us to be open to change @Zoe7, change is always tricky - even positive change! 

Super big thank you for saying I don't need to try to be anything different from who I am. This is definitely a giant part of my muddle, which I am sure my turtle whisperer and I will be discussing tomorrow. I think part of the problem is that the general view of neurotypicals is that aspies have to compromise to fit better into NT society. The thing is, I don't think a lot of NTs realise how much I DO compromise because they only see that I don't totally fit - they don't see how much effort it takes for me to fit as much as I do. Using Faith-and-Hope's analogy of dialects, it's like I've already moved miles from my original village, but people don't see that - they only see that I haven't moved "far enough" based on their judgement of what "far enough" is. I am so superly duperly glad that you and others in Forum Land "get" me. I can see that you, CheerBear, Faith-and-Hope and others have travelled out from your own villages to learn a dialect that fits more closely with mine. I guess the moderator of yesterday hasn't left her home village way up in the hills yet. 

I am still feeling super crushed over the idea that I somehow seem to have breached the community guidelines twice in seven days - once for using a term that I and others (including community guides) have used multiple times before, and once for...well...I still can't quite articulate what I did wrong yesterday.  I am sure NikNik will be able to help unmuddle the muddle. I just so very badly wish it wasn't a public holiday here in NSW today. 

I am super glad to see you here in the cave again @Zoe7. 

[Phoenix_Rising]

Hi @CheerBear, I meant to say how superly duperly frustrating it must have been to lose all your work on our DBT adventure yesterday. How are you doing it? I'm writing it all in WordPad and hitting save very frequently because I don't entirely trust the autosave function in Forum Land. I've never used WordPad before, but someone explained to me that it is better for drafting posts than Word because...um...well Forum Land and WordPad are better friends than Forum Land and Word are. 

I'm still getting my head around that a bit, and playing around with how to format things in WordPad so that they look the way I want them to in Forum Land. It is a work in progress... 

[Zoe7]

I hope you don't mind @Phoenix_Rising (and I am sure you won't ) but I am moving into the underwater cave for the foreseeable future. I have packed my pillow, blanket, Toby and Cat and moving in (length of tenancy undetermined at present). It is really good that we both have our own spaces 'off the side' of the cave where only turtles and flutterby's are allowed - so we are together but not together! I do presently feel safer here and it is the only way (for now anyway) that I can see to keep up some connections here - let's see how that goes hey!!!

I totally agree with you on how damaging invalidation can be little turtle. I think alot of people ofte mistake validation for attention also - but they are so very different. I avoid attention at all costs - even to the extent that I will not be in photos for activities with the kids when they are to be published in any form of media (that is also a safety issue for me too). Awards we have received over the years-  for one certain 'activity' that we have participated in each year - I have taken kids to accept the awards and stayed waaaaaay in the background. I do not like any attention on me at all (but that is a far greater issue that does not need to be further discussed here )

But the recognition from others that you have been 'heard' is so important - and when that does not come - or worse you are totally ignored - that cuts deep. It re-inforces our own negative feelings of one-self and if our self-esteem wasn't already at rock bottom then it would soon be there!

I do agree that our baby moderators may be feeling a bit overwhelmed themselves until they get the 'hang of the system' and get to know a bit more about some members (should be in the handbook - obviously we still need to write that section lol) I think maybe a bit like you - there is often some things that I may find 'out of place' or offensive that are left up while I cannot understand how other  things necessarily breach the guidelines (and I know them pretty well by now ) I personally was not in any way offended by your post - as I said - quite the oppposite but I can see (from a complete outsiders persepctive) that your wording may have seemed a little disrespectful - but then there have been way worse things written on here that have been left up. The quandry we face with new moderators will always be that not only are they 'learning' the system but I am sure they want to do a really good job - and that will mean knowing and following the community guidelines to a tee with absolutely no 'wriggle room' - despite the posters best intentions. I definitely get that. In saying that I also want to re-iterate how refreshing it is to have an Aspie Sea Turtle who tells it how it is and is not afraid to speak her mind  What it ultimately comes down to @Phoenix_Rising is we just haven;'t trained 'them' yet - but give it time - and hopefully they will be 'on the same page' to make life a little easier here.

I also wanted to reply to a post you wrote to @Faith-and-Hope I loved what you said about you not changing but knowing there are things you can improve. The core essence of YOU is what does not need to change, but just as we need to get used to advances in technology or different packaging on items (as 2 examples) - the basic underlying construct and purpose of these things do not change - they are just slight 'tweaks'or have added extra dimensions to the base product. if you see yourself as the 'base product' - one that it is definitely ok to be - then the additionals or changes around that base product are simply enhancements of that product. The core YOU does not change therefore at all.

I could go on and on here in response to so many points you raised but I am sure there is only so much 'stuff' even a little turtle can read in one go.

The upshot of this remains the same - I super like who YOU are and I don't see any reason for you to have to change that - adaption not change is the key here @Phoenix_Rising 

[Faith-and-Hope]

Any adjustments to any written works have to be by the writer themselves in order to be authentic, is my take on it ..... and for it to be authentic, then the writer has to be comfortable changing their work, and comfortable with the end product ..... it has to be by a choice that leaves them feeling that their work is, even in an edited form, their work ..... as in part of them as they are .....acceptable and valid as they are.

It's the same with artwork ..... I have a personal objection to art teachers who tell students exactly what they want their artwork to look like, and "correct" it to match their own tastes and ideas .....

Hi @Zoe7 @Phoenix_Rising ...... 👋

[Zoe7]

Totally agree @Faith-and-Hope - changes to either written text and/or art need to be absolutely the author's. As a teacher you can make suggestions on how 'works' can be improved but it is so much more authentic if you can actually guide your students to come up with such improvements on their own. This becomes more about teachig them the skills to be able to identify how a 'work' can be enhanced rather than making overt suggestions yourself. Sometimes this means looking at a piece of writing or an art piece in it's totality and asking such questions as 'does it convey the true meaning that you want to convey', and other times it is highlighting a small section and asking how they believe it could be improved to further enhance the overall meaning of what they are trying to say. It does. at times, become a fine line between 'guiding' and 'influencing' - and the ability of a teacher to be able to both recognise the difference and be conscious of which one they are actually utilising is a skill in itself.

[Faith-and-Hope]

I think that is one reason why I enjoy crosswords so much @Zoe7 ..... there are times when I "cheat" and look up a thesaurus ..... but it's not cheating in fact, it's learning ..... there are so many different ways to say the same sort of thing, and very often I have never heard of the particular answer the puzzle is calling for. I learn something in looking up potential answers and finding the one that fits.

It's like that with art ..... only the "thesaurus" is the world of visual art all around us ..... we are influenced by what we see, and we can actively choose influences to apply to our work. Part of the joy of teaching is, for me, to introduce the students to a variety of influences and let them consider them ..... explore .... ask questions ..... ask for help if they get stuck in trying I apply them ...... at which point you can be involved in their learning and absorbing. The point being that it is their learning ..... their authenticity.